The following is taken from a discussion. It highlights the issues in a perhaps clearer way so some may find it useful addition to the main article:

(whenever discussing a subject, note the subtle yet important difference between interpretative difference (i.e. opinion) and stronger arguments such as contradiction, logical/practical impossibilities or problems. Many conflate these thinking they are of similar weight!)

Peace brothers,
So let me summarise our convo thus far. According to you:

(I initially asked those who believe 10:87 refers to a physical prayer direction the following challenge:
Get a piece of paper, and randomly make dots on it, say 10, any pattern u like, in a cluster, separate, whatever.
Then pretend each one of those dots is a house and u are the people of Moses, and make the houses (plural) as a qiblah (singular). Draw the qiblah line. Then for each house/dot on ur paper do the same.
Then redo the dot pattern as many times as u like, then repeat if you wish until you find a configuration that works.
Then take a pic of the best example which shows 10:87 works as a prayer direction and share it here
Thanks
(from my years of discussions on this subject, no-one has been able to provide an example and end up admitting they face different directions)

1)
10:87 means each family prays in whatever direction in their home.
If they are outside they face their home.
If more than one family together praying they negotiate what to face or do their salat separately.
Similarly, if at each others houses.
You provide no logical or practical reason for this command.

2)
The above uses a command/imperative verb. You claim command verbs are not binding sometimes.

3)
Above instruction is AFTER Abraham allegedly built a building for prayer direction. You admit nothing is stopping them facing Jerusalem or Becca or wherever you think he built it. For whatever unknown reason God doesn’t instruct them to face it.

4)
6:79 shows turn+wajh does not necessarily mean a physical directional turning. You agree but claim qiblah makes it directional in the change of qiblah verses. I say this is inconsistent and circular reasoning. You claim no. I run our convo through chatGPT, it agrees with me. You still say no.
https://chatgpt.com/share/6a121f3e-fc60-83eb-9bfb-947ab6940e89

5)
I ask has 6:79 been abrogated (since Abraham allegedly later built a building for prayer direction). You did not answer.

6)
Ironically 6:80 shows argument increased after Abraham turned his wajh to other than what they did. Yet you want us to believe turn+wajh in the change of qiblah verses results in less argument, as implied by the verses?
Please explain how praying in the same direction as people of the book then changing will result in less debate.

7)
I asked you to provide a timeline for all these qiblah changes you believe in, for each prophet, and even laid out an easy format on how to reply. You were silent.

Timeline format:
provide the timeline of qiblah changes for each prophet e.g.
Prior to Abraham
X
Abraham prior to building
Y
Abraham after building
Z
Moses
Homes
Jesus
X
Muhammad
XYZ

8)
The reason for asking for timeline is that all this variance causes issues, e.g. please explain:
a) why is it foolish to ask what made them change? With all these alleged changes it seems a reasonable question to ask.
b) they recognise it like they recognise their sons, i.e. something obvious but its not obvious! In fact, one could claim, in this view of yours, God contradicts Himself and is the source of confusion because for Moses’ people he made qiblah their homes, yet in the change of qiblah verses He makes it al masjid al haram then seemingly blames them for not recognising it as the truth! Please explain.
c) the change of qiblah verses clearly open with saying the past is the past, we wont be asked about what they did, then, do you claim it immediately after talks about what past communities did (e.g. Abraham) and asks us to do what he did?
d) after stating the foolish will say what made them change qiblah, God says “say” To God is the east and west........” why? One might expect it to say something like ‘we follow the creed of Abraham or original house’ etc
e) it seems every chance it gets, Quran clearly stating direction is irrelevant and/or doesn’t work, 10:87, 2:238-239, before AND after change of qiblah verses (2:115, 2:177). Seems a mixed message. Can you provide a similar mixed message example like this in Quran?
f) speaking of mixed message, 2:145 would imply that if the messenger were to follow their qiblah after these revelations then he would be a wrongdoer and following their desires, yet he was apparently following it previously. Is there a precedent for this in Quran, i.e. doing X is allowed (commanded?) then a future revelation clearly changes doing X to desires/wrongdoing?
g) if prior qiblah was a command from God then does this mean the prophet was dissatisfied with such a command hence moving his wajh in the sky?

9)
the change of qiblah verses do not mention “salat” or “kaabah”. Al masjid al haram is never mentioned with Abraham. There is not any evidence anywhere in Quran for directional turning in salat.

10)
The verses explicitly state “wherever you are” and “wherever you depart” turn your wajh.......
It is near impossible to face a specific direction “wherever you are” and “wherever you depart” hence the forced insertion of “during salat”.

11)
And lastly the meaning of shatra. I already provided some Classical Arabic meanings but they were seemingly ignored, so here they are again. From Project Root List:
= to part in two, divide into halves, distant/remote, a direction in which one looks or goes, one who withdraws or breaks off from his people, a distant region towards which one journeys.

12)
whatever understanding one has for qiblah, it will have to fit Quranic grammar/logic:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/qiblah.html

There are some other issues mentioned in my articles, and analyse in detail what Quran says about qiblah and it most likely means:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html


Further background:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.html
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-2196-critical-thinking.html

I think I have provided sufficient evidence to refute qiblah as prayer direction, or at least we can say it is weak until proven otherwise.

qiblah more likely means: focal-point (i.e. focus of interest/attention/activity)

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER:

This work reflects my personal understanding, as of 25th May 2026. Seeking knowledge is a continual process and I will try to improve my understanding of the signs within 'the reading' (al quran) and out with it, unless The God wills otherwise. All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.


More articles here: https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/